Tenacious Learner
Senior Member
Spanish
- Nov 16, 2014
- #1
Hello teachers,
Is it true that the difference between "must" (internal obligation) and "have to" (external obligation) comes only from British English and not American English?
If so, in American English we use "must" and "have to" indistintevely to express internal or external obligation; right?
Thanks in advance.
bennymix
Senior Member
Now, Ontario, Canada. California; Princeton, NJ.
English (American).
- Nov 16, 2014
- #2
My impression is that 'have to', generally, in AE, is related to 'external obligation'. But not always. Suppose a child blurts out something impolite about my wife's new dress. I might
express my displeasure: "You just had to say something, didn't you?"
Further, 'must' is quite often external, as in a sign in a parking lot: "You must get your ticket validated in the store where you do your shopping."
I can think of few generalizations or rules [about these words in AE] other than the one I've given above in blue.
Tenacious Learner
Senior Member
Spanish
- Nov 16, 2014
- #3
bennymix said:
My impression is that 'have to', generally, in AE, is related to 'external obligation'. But not always. Suppose a child blurts out something impolite about my wife's new dress. I might
express my displeasure: "You just had to say something, didn't you?"Further, 'must' is quite often external, as in a sign in a parking lot: "You must get your ticket validated in the store where you do your shopping."
I can think of few generalizations or rules [about these words in AE] other than the one I've given above in blue.
Hello bennymix, TL
Thank you for your reply. Then, it is true that in American English the use of "must" and "have to" express internal or external obligation indistintevely.
J
JordyBro
Senior Member
English - Australia
- Nov 16, 2014
- #4
From my perspective
have to -- general requirements, sometimes things you feel you have to do based on a whim.
must -- logical assumptions and by extension requirements.
Tenacious Learner
Senior Member
Spanish
- Nov 16, 2014
- #5
JordyBro said:
From my perspective
have to -- general requirements, sometimes things you feel you have to do based on a whim.
must -- logical assumptions and by extension requirements.
Hello JodyBro,
Thank you for your reply.
Do you agree on these conclusions too?
I must stop smoking. (I want to stop smoking -- internal obligation)
The obligation can come from the speaker or the listener.
I have to stop smoking. (Doctor's orders -- external obligation)
The obligation comes from 'outside'. Never from the speaker.
TL
Glasguensis
Signal Modulation
France
English - Scotland
- Nov 16, 2014
- #6
I don't know where you got this theory from, but all I can say is that you should treat it as a "tendency" at most, in American or British English. In most circumstances people may use either "must" or "have to" interchangeably to describe either an external or internal obligation.
In the smoking example, "have to" could also be used for an internal obligation.
RM1(SS)
Senior Member
Connecticut
English - US (Midwest)
- Nov 16, 2014
- #7
The only difference that I see is that must sounds more formal than have to. (Not that it actually is more formal - it just sounds that way to me.)
P
Parla
Member Emeritus
New York City
English - US
- Nov 17, 2014
- #8
They mean the same to me; no difference.
S
Susan Y
Senior Member
Australia
British English
- Nov 17, 2014
- #9
Parla said:
They mean the same to me; no difference.
Same for me.
bennymix
Senior Member
Now, Ontario, Canada. California; Princeton, NJ.
English (American).
- Nov 17, 2014
- #10
Good points, Glasguensis. It's not hard to think of 'have to' for an 'internal compulsion'. A smoker is desperate to go out of the office for a smoke. He says to a co-worker. "It's been 4 hours. I have to have a cigarette!"
Glasguensis said:
I don't know where you got this theory from, but all I can say is that you should treat it as a "tendency" at most, in American or British English. In most circumstances people may use either "must" or "have to" interchangeably to describe either an external or internal obligation.
In the smoking example, "have to" could also be used for an internal obligation.
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Tenacious Learner
Senior Member
Spanish
- Nov 18, 2014
- #11
Susan Y said:
Same for me.
Hello Susan Y,
Thank you for your reply.
Aside:
< Second question needs its own thread. >
TL
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Tenacious Learner
Senior Member
Spanish
- Nov 18, 2014
- #12
Hello teachers,
I appreciate all your replies. I think trying to explain all the minor nuances would have a page for each word!
TL
Muhammad Khatab
Senior Member
ُEgypt
Classical Arabic
- Mar 20, 2019
- #13
When talking about internal obligation, we can use either "must" or "have to". Must is more formal. But when talking about external obligation, we only use "have to" and not "must". That's the solid rule concerning this part according to Cambridge English Grammar in Use for Intermediate Learners of English. It also says there that "must" is often used in written rules and instructions.
Florentia52
Modwoman in the attic
Wisconsin
English - United States
- Mar 20, 2019
- #14
Muhammad Khatab said:
When talking about internal obligation, we can use either "must" or "have to". Must is more formal. But when talking about external obligation, we only use "have to" and not "must". That's the solid rule concerning this part according to Cambridge English Grammar in Use for Intermediate Learners of English.
As with all "rules" for English usage, and as noted above, this is good general guidance but not a hard-and-fast rule.
Visitors must remove shoes before entering the building.
All guests must check in at the registration desk.
Tax returns must be filed by April 15.
Muhammad Khatab
Senior Member
ُEgypt
Classical Arabic
- Mar 20, 2019
- #15
Florentia52 said:
As with all "rules" for English usage, and as noted above, this is good general guidance but not a hard-and-fast rule.
Visitors must remove shoes before entering the building.
All guests must check in at the registration desk.
Tax returns must be filed by April 15.
These are all written notices. I can imagine these notices as persons making these obligations themselves. The notices here are the speakers. So "must" here is not about external obligations. It's the notice itself that makes the obligation.
Glasguensis
Signal Modulation
France
English - Scotland
- Mar 20, 2019
- #16
I strongly agree with Florentia52. These grammar guides are guides, not rules. Before you come into the house you must remove your shoes. Before you come into the house you have to remove your shoes. This is a verbal external obligation and as far as I’m concerned the two are entirely interchangeable.
Muhammad Khatab
Senior Member
ُEgypt
Classical Arabic
- Mar 21, 2019
- #17
Glasguensis said:
I strongly agree with Florentia52. These grammar guides are guides, not rules. Before you come into the house you must remove your shoes. Before you come into the house you have to remove your shoes. This is a verbal external obligation and as far as I’m concerned the two are entirely interchangeable.
So are there situations in which "must" can't replace "have to", and vice versa?
Before you come into the house you must remove your shoes. (the speaker is my mother: internal obligation imposed by the speaker herself)
;Before you come into the house you have to remove your shoes. (the speaker is my sister: external obligation imposed by somebody else other than the speaker, in this case, the mother)
But in all, English native speakers use them interchangeably in this day and age.
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Florentia52
Modwoman in the attic
Wisconsin
English - United States
- Mar 21, 2019
- #18
Muhammad Khatab said:
But in all, English native speakers use them interchangeably in this day and age.
I don’t use them interchangeably. I don’t think I ever use “must,” other than in a construction such as “It must have been 3 a.m. when I woke up” or “You must be exhausted.”
Muhammad Khatab
Senior Member
ُEgypt
Classical Arabic
- Mar 21, 2019
- #19
Florentia52 said:
I don’t use them interchangeably. I don’t think I ever use “must,” other than in a construction such as “It must have been 3 a.m. when I woke up” or “You must be exhausted.”
I mean when it comes to obligation, natives use them interchangeably.
Glasguensis
Signal Modulation
France
English - Scotland
- Mar 21, 2019
- #20
Natives will usually have a preference for one or the other. They are (usually) interchangeable in the sense that they mean the same thing. That doesn’t mean that natives randomly choose between them.
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